tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post225491561711587123..comments2024-01-31T03:00:37.150-05:00Comments on View-from-Wilmington: DNA contamination and DNA cold hitsChris Halkideshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14933976220776524122noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post-20109681663828035142010-06-24T09:56:45.672-04:002010-06-24T09:56:45.672-04:00Joseph Bishop commented on an article in the Nati...<i>Joseph Bishop commented on an article in the National Review. The NR took a what-is-wrong-with-the-youth-of-today stance with respect to the Knox/Sollecito case. Mr. Bishop’s response ended with a criticism of the University of Washington for not taking a stronger stand in defense of Ms. Knox. Duke lacrosse veterans in particular may want to comment on this.</i><br /><br />Chris,<br /><br />Was Amanda still affiliated with UW at the time of her studying in Perugia? Was she enrolled in a joint program between the two universities? I wasn't sure if her time in Perugia was a continuation of her studies at UW or she had taken a sabbatical at UW to study abroad on her own.<br /><br />ChristianaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post-79430689821516528752010-06-24T09:21:54.618-04:002010-06-24T09:21:54.618-04:00Ha!
Yes, Chris.
Some of the things that were cho...Ha!<br /><br />Yes, Chris.<br /><br />Some of the things that were chosen to sensationalize the case were comical and insignificant; however, that's the unfortunate game played by the media---both tabloid as well as the so-called "mainstream" variety.<br /><br />I won't revisit the conversations we've had here in the past......just to say that, in my opinion, the reality or the "truth" lies somewhere in between.Debrahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04567454727276881424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post-81236451993231831482010-06-23T20:49:43.457-04:002010-06-23T20:49:43.457-04:00Debrah,
More than some of her supporters perhaps,...Debrah,<br /><br />More than some of her supporters perhaps, I agree that some of Ms. Knox's actions were odd or inappropriate. However, I would raise two points in her defense. She was clearly frightened and exhausted by 5 November 2007, probably earlier. Therefore, I would say that there were some extenuating circumstances. I also believe that some of the actions that Dr. Giobbi found suspicious were entirely inoccuous, such as her alleged swiveling of her hips when she put on her shoe covers.<br /><br />ChrisChris Halkideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14933976220776524122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post-30894160707600332702010-06-23T12:54:00.731-04:002010-06-23T12:54:00.731-04:00I agree, Chris.
Knox was certainly treated unfair...I agree, Chris.<br /><br />Knox was certainly treated unfairly in the media right from the start.<br /><br />However, in her case, it was as much sensationalism as sexism.<br /><br />If she were a guy caught up inside a murder case where sex was reported as being a prominent feature, I think the media and the bloggers would have used that element in the same way.<br /><br />And it would have been so much easier to discern all motives in this case had the language barrier not existed for many.<br /><br />I agree that individual professors at the U of W---those who have tenure (LOL!)---should have spoken out in her defense. Especially those who knew her well.<br /><br />You might not agree; however, Knox's own behavior did not help her case.<br /><br />That cannot be blamed on the media or on detractors.Debrahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04567454727276881424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post-1737662151614901062010-06-23T12:28:08.427-04:002010-06-23T12:28:08.427-04:00Debrah,
One option for UW would be to affirm the ...Debrah,<br /><br />One option for UW would be to affirm the right to due process, which surely includes the right to see and to challenge the evidence against oneself. Readers of this blog know that I feel the Italian law enforcment (ILE) and judicial authorities came up way short, especially with respect to the log files and electronic data files with DNA information.<br /><br />We also know that much of what Amanda Knox said in her diary was leaked in bad translations. Other leaks consisted of patently false information. If UW itself did not want to criticize ILE for these actions, how about individual faculty members?<br /><br />Finally, Amanda Knox is a woman, and one whose normal sexual activity has been turned into something evil. Let's not forget the headline upon her conviction:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6945967.ece" rel="nofollow"> The Kercher Trial: Amanda Knox snared by her lust and her lies</a>.<br /><br />ChrisChris Halkideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14933976220776524122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post-28273749412729507462010-06-23T12:11:21.342-04:002010-06-23T12:11:21.342-04:00"Duke lacrosse veterans in particular may wan...<i>"Duke lacrosse veterans in particular may want to comment on this."</i><br />****************************************<br /><br />Wow, Chris.<br /><br />That's certainly a provocative topic.<br /><br />At the risk of stepping on your toes a bit (Ha!), I think it can be said that the academy, in general, is not comprised of those whose first instinct is to wander <i>outside the box</i> and risk their own comfort level.<br /><br />It would seem that a university is run rather like a business.....while putting on a facade of altruism and enlightenment.<br /><br />Positions taken are those of least resistance and once positions are taken regarding society's "culture wars" there's little deviation by members of the academic "club".<br /><br />But such an insular club it is.<br /><br />I've always been perplexed by the fact that those who profess to teach seem to have so little experience about life, in general.<br /><br />This perhaps creates the unusually powerful strain of insularity that we often witness from members of the academy.<br /><br />They exist inside a fragile shell that can be cracked so effortlessly if they dare go against accepted views.<br /><br />The very strong quadrumvirate of ( race / class / gender / sexual orientation ) reigns.<br /><br />In the Duke Lacrosse Hoax, we saw race/class/gender rule.<br /><br />In the Frank Lombard case---the high Duke official convicted of horrific molestation of the boys he adopted---we witnessed how sexual orientation is one of the very powerful "untouchables" within the academy as well as in the media.<br /><br />Can anyone imagine how all of those same people would have reacted if the straight lacrosse players had done anything close to what Lombard did?---a member of Duke's staff, no less! <br /><br />And it must be highlighted that there seems to be a sexist twist to the way lesbians are covered as compared to the way gay men are covered in the media and beyond.<br /><br />Rabid feminists and lesbians inside the academy who went after the lacrosse players were lambasted nonstop (and for good reason!) and with glee; however, gay men didn't receive quite the same brand of ridicule.<br /><br />Even though a few gay male bloggers and writers were some of the most egregiously offensive when the case broke.<br /><br />The writer Allan Gurganus and gossipy blogger Andy Towle were chief among them.<br /><br />Yet, did we see a grand call for these hetero-male-hating bigots to apologize?<br /><br />Did they apologize at all?<br /><br />Chris, regarding the University of Washington not taking a stronger stance, one should not be surprised.<br /><br />Unless Knox and her family had direct ties to the university or were tethered to an aspect of the academy's "untouchable" quadrumvirate of ( race / class / gender / sexual orientation ) in a way that would formulate a high profile of "victimhood"......<br /><br />.......and her alma mater could come off in the media as her "champion" or "hero"......<br /><br />.......then getting involved would have been of no benefit to them.<br /><br />Moreover, the university would hardly go on record for attacking a European city and its justice system.<br /><br />Why....that's just not done!Debrahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04567454727276881424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post-75603596082644227512010-06-22T18:24:56.063-04:002010-06-22T18:24:56.063-04:00Joseph Bishop commented on an article in the Nati...<a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/phi-beta-cons/39769/murder-abroad" rel="nofollow">Joseph Bishop </a> commented on an article in the National Review. The NR took a what-is-wrong-with-the-youth-of-today stance with respect to the Knox/Sollecito case. Mr. Bishop’s response ended with a criticism of the University of Washington for not taking a stronger stand in defense of Ms. Knox. Duke lacrosse veterans in particular may want to comment on this.Chris Halkideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14933976220776524122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post-56406812571778300852010-06-21T20:24:18.288-04:002010-06-21T20:24:18.288-04:00Rose,
What is really scary to contemplate is Gott...Rose,<br /><br />What is really scary to contemplate is Gottlieb getting his hands on DNA evidence.<br /><br />ChrisChris Halkideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14933976220776524122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post-26932328680967728652010-06-17T19:55:38.079-04:002010-06-17T19:55:38.079-04:00Christiana at 11:44 AM,
Meredith's partial pr...Christiana at 11:44 AM,<br /><br />Meredith's partial profile was the result after the LCN amplification. There is an electropherogram on page 5 of the Johmson/Hampikian open letter. Perugia Murder FIle also has some images of the profiles <a href="http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=203" rel="nofollow">here</a><br /><br />How many of the peaks on the knife should have been counted is a tricky question that I tried to tackle in a <a href="http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.com/2010/02/ordinary-kitchen-knife-or-murder-weapon.html" rel="nofollow">previous post</a> and one <a href="http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.com/2010/01/amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-and.html" rel="nofollow">before that.</a><br /><br />ChrisChris Halkideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14933976220776524122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post-8309537312163868402010-06-17T19:44:23.221-04:002010-06-17T19:44:23.221-04:00Christiana at 12:07,
I do not think that there is...Christiana at 12:07,<br /><br />I do not think that there is any particular number of loci that is an agreed upon minimum to convict, since a match probability can be calculated regardless. However, California law is that one needs 7 loci to search the database, so that might be a de facto minimum in a cold case.<br /><br />Indeed partial profiles are enough to convict here and in other countries. One defense attorney in a link I gave said words to the effect that the jury has only to hear the word "match," and they will convict. The case I mentioned is being appealed.<br /><br />ChrisChris Halkideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14933976220776524122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post-36850367143965416752010-06-17T13:17:49.940-04:002010-06-17T13:17:49.940-04:00The FBI maintains a central DNA database called CO...The FBI maintains a central DNA database called CODIS, if I am reading this correctly. The type of profiles that make it into the system appear to vary by state. <br /><br />Link to follow:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.dna.gov/dna-databases/types" rel="nofollow">DNAdotGOV</a>RoseMontaguenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post-65905283210503043522010-06-17T12:07:16.669-04:002010-06-17T12:07:16.669-04:00I included the discussion of cold hits and partial...<i>I included the discussion of cold hits and partial profiles partly because I am conversing with someone whose relative was convicted on the basis of this kind of evidence.</i><br /><br />Presently, are convictions occurring based on partial profiles? Hopefully, if this conviction was some time ago it can be reviewed against new standards. <br /><br />Is there a scientific community standard that agrees what constitutes a profile that should be considered as evidence in a case, (in evidence collected and tested - either too low a number of loci to compare against a defendant's profile so it shouldn't be considered; or a high number of loci match a defendant's profile so it should be considered).<br /><br />ChristianaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post-10013609164451415802010-06-17T11:44:24.344-04:002010-06-17T11:44:24.344-04:00Chris,
This was a very interesting post on DNA.
...Chris,<br /><br />This was a very interesting post on DNA.<br /><br />Do you have a link (perhaps to an earlier post - I think I read it here but am not sure) containing Meredith's DNA profile on the knife? Was her partial profile obtained before LCN testing or after?<br /><br />Rose,<br /><br />At JREF I thought I read that if a voluntary DNA sample is given it must be destroyed after a time and not applied to a database. Is that not true? <br /><br />I have wondered when Knox and Sollecito were asked to give a DNA sample (before or after incarceration) and if anyone else was asked to give samples voluntarily.<br /><br />ChristianaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post-10117838589703126532010-06-17T11:34:10.453-04:002010-06-17T11:34:10.453-04:00Rose,
I agree with your point about contamination...Rose,<br /><br />I agree with your point about contamination. I do not know whether the entire team's samples were included into the database or not. And the law may be different with respect to a nontestimonial order versus a conviction. However, if North Carolina demanded samples upon arrest in 2006, then samples from the three accused players would now be in the database.<br /><br />I included the discussion of cold hits and partial profiles partly because I am conversing with someone whose relative was convicted on the basis of this kind of evidence.<br /><br />ChrisChris Halkideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14933976220776524122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8731849270338485723.post-90851130458099806132010-06-17T09:45:52.701-04:002010-06-17T09:45:52.701-04:00A terrific post, Chris. I know you were not appro...A terrific post, Chris. I know you were not approaching the subject of mandatory DNA samples and privacy issues, but your entire post argues against it.<br><br />Anybody that gives a voluntary DNA sample after reading this post is asking for trouble, in my opinion. Going back to the Duke Lacrosse case, in retrospect, the players that lined up to give samples were fortunate indeed that their DNA did not end up mixed with Crystal's in one test or another. <br><br />Of course, their DNA is now in a database (my assumption-perhaps you can answer) so there is no guarantee that this might not come back to haunt them.RoseMontaguenoreply@blogger.com